Healing Metabolism to Heal Schizoaffective Disorder: Lauren Kennedy West's Medical Keto Journey

Lauren: 
I was skeptical of this. I definitely did not even dream that I would be feeling this way seven months later. And so understanding that, unless you go through this kind of transformation or this kind of experience of your world opening back up from these therapies, I understand that there is a degree of, well that kind of seems too good to be true.

Bret: 
Welcome to the Metabolic Mind Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Bret Scher. Metabolic Mind is a nonprofit initiative of Baszucki Group where we’re providing information about the intersection of metabolic health and mental health and metabolic therapies such as nutritional ketosis as therapies for mental illness.

Thank you for joining us. Although our podcast is for informational purposes only and we aren’t giving medical advice, we hope you will learn from our content and it will help facilitate discussions with your healthcare providers to see if you could benefit from exploring the connection between metabolic and mental health.

Lauren Kennedy West from the YouTube channel, Living Well With Schizophrenia, joins myself and Hannah Warren to discuss her experience over the past seven months of using metabolic and ketogenic therapies to treat her schizoaffective disorder, and it’s led her to some pretty profound conclusions, like the medical system has failed her, and is it failing many other patients?

And what role do patients have to play as their own advocate? And she’s a shining example and a leader in this area. So, we talk about her experience with the medical profession, with her medications, with her illness, how it’s changed her relationship with her partner and her athletic performance, which has been pretty stellar, and so much more.

As always, Lauren is just open and honest and vulnerable as she frequently is on her channel, and that’s something that makes her sharing her experience so important and impactful. So, I hope you enjoy this interview with myself and Hannah Warren and Lauren Kennedy West of Living Well With Schizophrenia.

Lauren, thank you so much for joining us again here at Metabolic Mind. 

Lauren: 
Thanks so much for having me again. 

Bret: 
Yeah, Hannah and I were talking about how it’s always so wonderful just to be able to connect with you. And for those people who don’t know, they have to check out Living Well With Schizophrenia where you are posting, and have been posting for about the past seven months, your journey with ketogenic therapy and medical keto to treat your schizoaffective disorder.

And lately you’ve presented some pretty, I don’t know, pretty strong and maybe some controversial videos that I wanted to review with you here, and one was that the medical system failed. So, first tell us, just give us the quick summary about how your experience with medical keto has gone and why that led you to making this claim that the medical system has failed you.

Lauren: 
Yeah, so I guess I started exploring keto, the ketogenic diet and metabolic therapies, at the end of December of this past year, 2023. And so it’s been just over seven months of following it. And I think very quickly, I saw improvements in my experience of my illness, and also very quickly I just began to realize I wasn’t really experiencing the symptoms that had been impacting my life so profoundly for so long.

And yeah, throughout this moving down on medication as well, I’ve just felt like I am stepping back into myself, and a fuller experience of the world that I’m realizing I was missing out on for the last decade plus of struggling with my mental health and of navigating the mental healthcare system.

And I made that kind of big statement of being in a space right now where I feel like the medical system failed me because I think I came to a similar conclusion even before I tried keto, whereby I started to realize that the medical system was never really going to get at the things that were ultimately going to allow me to thrive, even while living with an illness like schizoaffective disorder.

And I really came to realize that things that were really more so in my power and control, like acceptance and whatnot, were really the things that were going to impact my quality of life. But then, moving through this exploration of metabolic therapies, I’m learning more that goes even beyond things like acceptance, too.

Things like my diet, my exercise, my sleep schedule, and all of these things that the medical system has just never even touched on really with me. Maybe that’s not fair? My psychiatrist or doctors sometimes do ask, how’s your sleep? But that’s really about the only extent it goes to. It doesn’t really get at helping people or it hasn’t gotten at helping me figure out how to work on those facets of my life that are ultimately going to get at the underlying reason of why I’ve struggled so much with my mental illness over the last 10, 15 years.

Bret: 
Yeah, it’s such an important perspective and I think holds true for so many people. Hannah, would you agree? Did the medical system fail you? And do you, did you have a similar experience? 

Hannah: 
Yeah, absolutely. When you talk about the idea of acceptance, I kind of want to bounce back with another question for Lauren about this.

Do you feel, I was told to accept that I had a lifelong chronic illness, bipolar I disorder. I’m sure you were told the same thing to accept that you had a lifelong chronic illness of schizoaffective disorder. How do you feel about it now? Do you accept that? 

Lauren: 
Yeah, I have a lot of conflicting feelings around that because on our YouTube channel for the last six or so years, that has been one of the main things that I’ve really been trying to help people work on is coming to a place of acceptance. Because I was fed that same message by the medical system and through my own experience of trying all these different treatment modalities, medication, ECT, whatever it may have been, that never really led to what I wanted from recovery.

Full, this experience that I mentioned about stepping back into a fuller life, and a more rich experience of my life and who I am. And yeah, it seemed important to come to a place of trying to accept that as being just a part of my life, a part of who I am. But now going through this completely transformative experience of realizing, whoa.

This was not who I am. This was not intrinsically a part of me. It was something that my body was screaming out to me through these symptoms saying, something is wrong here. I think it’s metabolic dysfunction, is what all signs of this being so effective are pointing to and what increasing science is pointing to.

And so that is hard to wrap my head around the fact that maybe I didn’t need to accept this as profoundly as I thought I did need to. 

Hannah: 
Yeah, that it’s such an incredible mindset shift because that’s how it was for me as well. Like I thought that I was going to have to deal with the symptoms of my illness for the rest of my life. And when metabolic therapies changed everything, like you have said in your recent videos, my world opened up.

I realized that I had a physiological condition I was able to heal and repair that with metabolic therapies. And after that, I felt like I could truly be myself again and be free from a condition that I thought I was just going to have to accept.

So it really does, it’s, I guess in one word, transformative. 

Bret: 
Yeah, both of your experiences are so profound and so important for people to realize that you can get back to your quote unquote, regular self or your true self. But that’s not always the goal for medical treatment. So, the medical treatment is frequently safety.

And as you both have said, medicines can have a role, right? Medicines can reduce symptoms acutely and can play a role for safety. But that’s very different than living your true self. You both share this responsibility that you’ve taken on to show the world like what you can feel and what can be accomplished.

But what do you fear that people might take away from this? Medicines are bad, medical system is bad. All I have to do is change how I eat and everything will be fine. Is there a little bit of that concern that people can walk away with that message? 

Lauren: 
Absolutely, yeah. I think, especially recently, I’ve tried to be a lot more measured, I guess, in my delivery and make it really clear that I’m not anti-medication. I’m not anti-psychiatry. These systems and medication have really helped me get through some really difficult periods of my illness.

And I do think that there is still a lot of room for these interventions to be used on more of an acute basis. But yeah, the way it’s set up right now where people are just put on these medications and there’s never really any effort to get off them or to see how they can live their lives without them, I think is problematic and is, yeah, where the problem lies.

And maybe for some people, they won’t be able to completely get off medication following an intervention like the ketogenic diet. And I think that’s totally okay, too. The goal here is not to get off medication or is not to, it’s not that necessarily. The goal here is really to live your best quality of life possible.

And so if that means staying on a small dose while doing these other metabolic therapies, I think that’s more than okay. 

Bret: 
Yeah, and you’ve mentioned the need for people to advocate for themselves. So, actually I want to ask you both like what does that mean to you? How can someone take that term. I need to advocate for myself, and turn it into action? What can they do? 

Lauren: 
I think that a lot of people have this understanding of the medical system or of medical professionals as having all the answers, and I think that’s where I was coming from when I started my journey in the mental health care system.

And perhaps that’s where some of that feeling of, feeling like you’re let down by the medical system comes from where they just don’t have the answers? We’re all human. We all have access to kind of the same information, and we have to act accordingly. And yeah, I never want it to come off like I am coming down harshly on psychiatrists or anything, who are not open to metabolic therapies. Because I think it’s just a reality of having a difficult time accepting change or of moving into new spaces of what is best practice. And I think it’s really important to constantly be doing your own research and constantly be checking in with what feels best for you, what is working best for you. And then taking that knowledge that you’ve created for yourself and going back to your care team and sharing it with them, and hopefully, getting on the same page in terms of moving forward in a way that feels good for you, and that they can help support you with as well.

Hannah: 
Yeah, as a patient advocate, I completely agree that there should be a lot of space for patients to approach their conditions with all different techniques. And I know a lot of people using keto and other metabolic therapies adjunctively, and they have benefited from it greatly and say that they are thriving and not experiencing any negative side effects from their medications.

Right now, the way these conditions are treated, it’s really substandard results for a lot of people. There’s a third of people with schizophrenia who are completely treatment resistant. Or you have people with bipolar disorder who are dying prematurely from cardiometabolic side effects from standard of care medications.

So, I think what it’s really about is pushing that people deserve better answers, people with psychiatric conditions. I think for too long we’ve accepted these kind of idea of these mysterious ailments that we can’t tie to the body. We can’t tie to root causes.

There’s kind of these arbitrary diagnostic labels that people are given where you do feel like intrinsically, what is wrong with me? Because it’s something you can’t put your hand on. You don’t know what is causing the issue. But then when you look at it as possibly a result of mitochondrial dysfunction, metabolic dysfunction, it gives you something a lot more tangible.

And I think that no matter what, and we still don’t know, the research is ongoing, what percentage of patients are really going be able to put their illness into remission and drastically reduce or eliminate medications if they’re using metabolic therapies. There’s a lot of answers we don’t have yet.

At the same time, I think we need to be pushing for precision psychiatry, and this idea that we have to get to the root cause of what is making people ill. Especially when you use the term treatment resistant, that’s pretty infuriating to me because it’s basically saying you’re giving up on people and allowing them to waste away in facilities and stuff instead of saying, how can we really help these people and find effective treatments for them? 

Bret: 
I think it’s also important to be real about our experiences, right? That to say, we can do better. We, people can be treated better and have better quality of lives. But it’s not always perfect, and that’s something that you do so well.

Lauren, your channel is sharing the reality and not every video is a bunch of roses and life is great, right? You presented a number of videos of ups and downs and challenges and struggles. So, I’m curious what you’ve learned from those struggles and how it helps you see the whole picture of what you’re accomplishing with your lifestyle?

Lauren: 
Yeah, I worry sometimes that people take away the message that I’ve implemented these metabolic therapies, and now my life is perfect, and I never struggle and anything. And definitely not. I’m still a human. Part of the human experience is inevitably suffering and challenges and struggling. I think what has been really cool though about this experience is realizing that I can still go through those natural ebbs and flows of what it means to be a human in the world and face challenges and whatnot, but I now feel a much greater capacity to navigate those in a more stable or healthy way.

And I’m not bogged down by the extra challenges that I faced all the time of experiencing symptoms and whatnot. And so no, it is not going to fix all of the problems in your life, but it is giving me the capacity to show up in a way that feels really good navigating the ups and the downs of life.

Hannah: 
So, as we’re talking about the how transformative kind of these therapies have been for you and how you’re really experiencing the world in a new way, things are opening up, I’m really curious about how that’s impacted your vision of the future and what you want to accomplish with your life, both personally and professionally?

Lauren: 
Yeah, that’s been a question I’ve been getting a lot. People are asking, are you going try to go back to school to finish your masters? Or what are you going do now? And i’m not really sure. I think I’m just in a space where it is just exciting being able to show up in my life in a way that I just couldn’t before.

I was reflecting with Rob a bit about what work used to look like or even what our day-to-day life used to look like, where there would be periods of time where I just was incapacitated by my illness. And I would just have to take days, sometimes weeks, receding a little bit from work or from whatever it may have been, and I just don’t experience those patches at all anymore.

I feel so much more ability to show up in my life the way I want. And so I’m not really sure big goals for the future just yet, but I’m really excited to keep moving forward with kind of this new found capacity. 

Hannah: 
I, actually, I love that answer because I think there’s something really critical about taking this process slow because it is such a major shift. And it’s important to give yourself time to process and also just to be able to enjoy your new quality of life before you go and pursue new dreams. And I intentionally also had to tell myself to slow down after I felt that my life had really fundamentally changed because it is such a profound shift.

You don’t really know what the next adventure is going be, but taking the time to really just savor and enjoy the newfound sense of well-being. 

Lauren: 
Yeah, I am still working on reducing my meds. And that withdrawal experience has also have been a little bit more taxing than I thought it was going to be.

And yeah, I think just trying to be gentle with myself still throughout that process and taking it as it comes. 

Bret: 
Yeah, tell us a little bit about that withdrawal process. We have a whole ‘nother video about medication management with Dr. Ede and with Nicole Laurent. But I also want to hear your personal experience as you were reducing your medications.

You posted some videos about withdrawal. So, why do you think that happened? How could you prevent it? What did you do to interject, to improve things? I think that’d be a good lesson for people to hear about your experience. 

Lauren: 
Yeah, so I’ve been exploring the concept of de-prescribing and how it’s, I feel that it’s not well known enough within psychiatric treatment.

It was, so I have gone through periods in the past years ago where I would get paranoid about my medication, and I would stop at cold turkey, for whatever reason, and inevitably a week, maybe two weeks later, I would end up in the hospital psychotic. And I was always told that while that’s your illness returning when you stop taking your medication.

But what I’ve come to explore more research around and learn is that withdrawal from psychiatric medication can cause some very real and very debilitating side effects, sometimes including psychosis, which could be what happened when I swiftly went off them in the past. And yeah, throughout this process I’ve learned how important it is to take it really slow, tapering down off medication, and even just making small incremental jumps.

I’ve definitely experienced side effects of withdrawal whereby I would feel nauseous, headaches, brain fog. Those were the main ones. I didn’t really experience any psychotic symptoms because I did, I think I did, take it much slower than obviously just going cold turkey.

But even my psychiatrist, he’s been on board with navigating this with me and with my keto coach, Nicole Laurent, and taking her guidance in terms of how to properly reduce meds while on keto. But even he made recommendations for me that were more drastic than what some of the, what some of the evidence indicates is best practice for de-prescribing, or what some professionals reached out in the field to let me know was probably unsafe.

And so, I think that unfortunately there’s just not enough education in psychiatry about how to effectively and safely taper people off medications. Because I’ve talked about how I think that the general climate or means of treatment in psychiatry is to get people on these medications and then operate under the assumption that they’re going to need to be on these medications for the rest of their life, especially for illnesses like schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar.

And so there’s not really any exploration or education around how to safely and effectively help people taper down off of these medications. 

Bret: 
So, another area where people really need to advocate for themselves and do their own homework and really research it on, yeah. 

Hannah: 
Yeah, it is true that psychiatrists really aren’t necessarily skilled in helping people to taper off medications.

And a video of yours that got a lot of attention recently really resonating with people was your shock at your psychiatrist not being more interested in how you were able to taper off of your medications and really experience better quality of life than you ever have. So, I think you were very compassionate when you talked about his response and how it’s really a part of a lot larger kind of systemic problem in the healthcare system.

But I’m wondering how you feel about that now and the role that we need to play as advocates to change the healthcare system so that people who want to have more effective treatments that get at the root cause and can help enable people to thrive?

What do we need to do to advocate for larger change? 

Lauren: 
Yeah, that feels like a bit of a daunting, big question. How do we change the way the mental healthcare system or the medical system in general operates in terms of moving away from the very acute symptom treating, method of treatment and more to addressing underlying causes or preventative medicine and whatnot, which I think would greatly improve overall health and people’s experience of mental health?

I don’t know. I hope that sharing our stories openly and publicly about what these interventions look like for us, what they have done for our lives and our experience of our illness is hopefully going to push clinicians and the mental healthcare system, in general, more to toward adopting these measures and these ways of thinking about mental illness.

I don’t really know beyond that. There’s a lot of clinicians and researchers who are doing amazing work furthering the science behind interventions like this. And I think, ultimately, that is what often speaks to scientific thinkers like doctors, physicians, psychiatrists. They’re looking for that concrete research.

I explored how even when that research comes out, I do think it is still going to be a bit of an uphill battle to fundamentally change the way the system operates or the way we think about mental illness. But I hope that in sharing our stories and talking about this, having more conversations about the importance of things like metabolic therapies and interventions, is going to be helpful.

Hannah: 
It is mind blowing to me to think about a clinician who has seen people in these deep struggles not finding relief from their medications, suffering with all sorts of side effects. Like you said, your psychiatrist has seen so much of your journey and your darkest times, and even in times where things were relatively good, you didn’t experience the profound well-being that you are right now.

And it is mind blowing that clinicians wouldn’t be absolutely curious, what is this intervention and how has it changed so much for her? When Bret and I have had the opportunity to speak in front of some clinicians, I always make it a point to direct them to your channel because I think being able to see your journey in real time and how it started with a place of you being unsure how this was going affect you. And I don’t even think you expressed having the expectation that this could impact your life just as much as it has in a relatively short period of time.

So, I think that the invaluable resources you’ve made for clinicians to be able to go in and see that journey from being uncertain and just giving it a try to being able to say that your illness, illnesses in remission, I hope that will inspire a lot of clinicians, who are more forward thinking and want to do everything that they can to help their patients achieve a better quality of life. 

Lauren: 
And I think maybe that’s something to empathize with a little bit more is that even just seven months ago, I was skeptical of this. I definitely did not even dream that I would be feeling this way seven months later. And so, understanding that unless you go through this kind of transformation or this kind of experience of your world opening back up from these therapies.

I understand that there is a degree of, that kind of seems too good to be true or like with this hesitation, I guess, to veer away from what we’ve been taught is best practice medication, maybe some therapy, and more toward this really new way of thinking about health and mental illness.

Hannah: 
As a peer mentor for you, like when we first connected, too, I was worried about my messaging of what this therapy could do for you because I’m optimistic. I think looking at the science, there’s a good chance this will impact a large percentage of patients. But until we have more research, we really don’t know.

And I was worried about painting a picture of something that could completely transform your life and put your illness into remission because I didn’t, everybody’s response can vary. But it’s been so incredible to watch you have a journey that has been so dramatic, and seeing the kind of results you’ve seen in such a short period of time.

And I think it’s really hopeful for people. And it’s more interesting also to be able to see that happen in real time, which is why it’s great that you’ve been able to document the whole process. 

Lauren: 
A really cool part of all this, too, is that we’ve been getting feedback from other people along the way about how they’ve been inspired to try it. Or they’ve got curious. And they did their own research. And they’re trying it, and it is changing their lives as well.

So yeah, while this has been an unbelievable journey over the last seven months of changing my own life, it is also really incredible to see that it’s had similar effects for many other people as well. 

Bret: 
That’s so inspiring to see the role that you can play in touching other people’s lives and improving their lives, which is fantastic.

But I want to transition for one second here to a different topic, a little lighter topic, but still very important. And I, looking at your videos, you’re a stud, like doing these triathlons, running these races, getting a medal. Like a lot of people are concerned about how is keto going affect my athletic performance.

And you’re not just out there going through the motions, you’re training and competing. So, I want to hear about that experience and how ketosis, being in ketosis, either helped her or maybe hampered your ability to do that? Beause based on your videos, you’re killing it. 

Lauren: 
Thank you. yeah, I think like athletics and races and stuff has always been a really like big or important part of my life, and so that was important for me to keep going with.

And also I think that entering this metabolic health project, we really tried to just dive fully in. And so, we took various forms of metabolic therapies very seriously. Not just the medical ketogenic dive, but being really regimented in our exercise. Trying to be regimented with sleep.

That’s something I’m still struggling with. But yeah, exercise, both. When I say we, I mean my partner, Rob, and me, doing this together. We made sure we go to the gym several times a week. We go for runs. We do other forms of exercise. And I was a little bit worried about how I would be able to keep up with it because we’re always fed this idea as athletes that you need carbohydrates in order to have enough energy to sustain physical exercise, physical activity.

But I think I quickly learned that’s just not the case. My body can absolutely still perform at a competitive level, even with less than 20 grams of carbs a day. And so that’s been really interesting. I think I am still struggling a bit with the longer distance runs. I was supposed to run a couple marathons throughout the last seven months that I’ve ended up just backing out of because I just haven’t quite dialed in how to go those lengths just yet.

I want to work on. Being super stable on this diet, and work on getting off medications before I tackle that more thoroughly and speak to professional athletes and stuff who are doing low carb performance stuff as well. But on the whole, it’s been really good, 

Hannah: 
I have to say, when you talked about giving yourself grace and everything in this process as you’re tapering, I thought, she just did a triathlon and she is giving herself grace.

Like just it’s incredible. it’s so neat to see you meeting, crushing so many goals at once, right? 

Bret: 
And often that the advice is to limit the stressors. Take one thing at a time. So, tackle diet, then sleep, and then stress management, and then slowly get into exercise. And I guess you don’t do anything half-assed.

You go after it, and you do it. You do full force, which is not necessarily right for everybody, but is awesome to see someone do it and accomplish it that the way you have. So, I think that’s pretty impressive. 

Lauren: 
I want to be mindful of not putting it out there, that you have to go like that extreme or that hard in order to find success and exercise as a metabolic therapy.

Like you absolutely don’t. That’s just what feels good for me, and where I like to live. But yeah, anyway, you can get into the world of exercising more, addressing these other metabolic therapies is great. 

Bret: 
Thank you. 

Hannah: 
I think I have that saved on one of my Pinterest board, like always use your full ass in athletics.

Lauren: 
Very inspiring. 

Hannah: 
I think it’s. It speaks to how different everyone is, and people should do different advice. I think for some people it really is important to take things step by step. But some people, they just like to dive right, and I think we need to respect that. People can tailor this approach to what suits their personality.

And you’re a great example of somebody, you gave up alcohol right away, started keto, stuck with the exercise, were managing sleep, and it’s worked beautifully for you to, do it from all angles. 

Bret: 
And one other topic here is you’ve mentioned your partner, Rob. In some of your videos, you really talk about how this whole experience has changed and deepened your relationship with Rob.

And you’ve been very open about a very personal topic like that. So, I’m curious. Were you surprised by that or how do you reflect on that? 

Lauren: 
I think we’re still processing all that, and I think we will be for a long time just in terms of how this experience is impacting even our relationship dynamic.

I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder in, I think, 2016, and I met Rob a couple years after that. So, I’ve always had this illness while I’ve known Rob, and it’s been a really long process and journey of figuring out how to, maybe not, I don’t know, incorporate, how to navigate, how to live with my illness, being present in our relationship for the first whatever, six years of our relationship.

And I think that’s not talked about enough in terms of when one partner has some illness or whatever, that severely impacts their life and how they show up in their life, and ultimately, their relationships as well. And so that was always something that we struggled through or worked on and whatnot and was present in our relationship.

Now, over the last seven months, while those ways that my illness showed up or impacted my life, and subsequently, my relationships, is being taken away. And so there’s this kind of new relational dynamic that we’re walking into or maybe falling into and trying to figure out, okay, how does this work now?

And what does this new dynamic feel like? And yeah, there’s a lot of communication that needs to take place about these shifts in not only my experience, but the experience of those around me, too, and how it impacts our relationships. 

Hannah: 
Lauren, talking about all your accomplishments and fitness, i’m very inspired.

I would like to build more muscle. Strength training is always something I wanted to pursue more, and I’m working on it slowly getting more consistent. But I love how you talk about how you used a DEXA scan, like when you started this process to monitor not just your weight but your muscle mass.

And one thing I think is really cool is that you’ve actually put on weight in the form of muscle throughout this process, which I think is important because you do have some skeptics or people who are critical of keto. Shebani Sethi’s study that showed an improvement in psychiatric symptoms along with metabolic health for people with schizophrenia and bipolar.

Some people said, oh, it was just from the weight loss that they saw improvements in their mental health. So, I think it’s great that you’ve tracked that and was wondering if you had anything to share about that?

Lauren: 
Yeah, I think like the flip side of that was that also a lot of people in the beginning of this were really worried about following the ketogenic diet triggering eating disorder behavior.

I have a history of an eating disorder, and they were very worried that it was going to trigger my eating disorder, or that even just watching this content was going to be triggering for them. And yeah, I think I’ve had the opposite experience whereby I think that this has actually healed my relationship with food and fueling my body in a really cool way.

And I’m actually going to be interviewing Dr. Guido Frank for our channel later today. So, hopefully, we’ll have more information about his study on using the keto diet to treat anorexia. Back to your question, yeah, it was really cool that I was actually able to gain weight in terms of putting on muscle, and it was never really an issue of losing weight that I didn’t want to lose.

And yeah, it was cool to be able to show that didn’t need to be a problem.

Bret: 
Lauren, Hannah, and I can’t thank you enough for joining us today. And this whole community, i’m sure, can’t thank you enough for how honest and vulnerable you’ve been in your videos and just posting about your experience the whole way. And you are such a wonderful example for people to learn from and inspire to, aspire to to be like.

So, thank you for all your work and just for, like I said, your honesty and for all you do. And thank you for joining us, and hopefully, we’ll have you back again soon to talk about more of your adventures. 

Lauren: 
I would love to, thank you so much. 

Bret: 
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