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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Hosted By Bret Scher

101 episodes

Semiweekly

The Metabolic Mind Podcast explores how nutrition, lifestyle, and metabolism impact brain health. Join leading voices uncovering powerful new ways to understand and treat mental conditions.

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About the host

Bret Scher, MD

Bret Scher, MD

Medical Director, Metabolic Mind and Baszucki Group

Bret is the host of the Metabolic Mind YouTube channel and podcast. He is a board-certified cardiologist, lipidologist, and leading expert in therapeutic uses of metabolic therapies, including ketogenic diets. Prior to joining Baszucki Group, Bret was the medical director at DietDoctor.com, an online platform promoting improving metabolic health through low-carb nutrition, where he was a content creator and medical reviewer. Earlier in his career, he worked as a cardiologist in San Diego. Bret has spent most of his 20-year career as a preventive cardiologist, helping people improve their metabolic health and preventing heart disease using low-carb nutrition and lifestyle interventions. His deep passion for educating the public about the benefits of metabolic therapies grew from his experience with the prevailing medical teaching, which frequently misrepresents nutrition science and undervalues metabolic health. Bret received an MD from The Ohio State University College of Medicine and a BS in Biology from Stanford University. He grew up in San Diego and began competing in triathlons at an early age, which helped fuel his love of health and fitness. He continues to enjoy spending time outdoors mountain biking, swimming, hiking, and playing baseball with his two boys.
Learn more about Bret

Bret Scher, MD

Medical Director, Metabolic Mind and Baszucki Group

Bret is the host of the Metabolic Mind YouTube channel and podcast. He is a board-certified cardiologist, lipidologist, and leading expert in therapeutic uses of metabolic therapies, including ketogenic diets. Prior to joining Baszucki Group, Bret was the medical director at DietDoctor.com, an online platform promoting improving metabolic health through low-carb nutrition, where he was a content creator and medical reviewer. Earlier in his career, he worked as a cardiologist in San Diego. Bret has spent most of his 20-year career as a preventive cardiologist, helping people improve their metabolic health and preventing heart disease using low-carb nutrition and lifestyle interventions. His deep passion for educating the public about the benefits of metabolic therapies grew from his experience with the prevailing medical teaching, which frequently misrepresents nutrition science and undervalues metabolic health. Bret received an MD from The Ohio State University College of Medicine and a BS in Biology from Stanford University. He grew up in San Diego and began competing in triathlons at an early age, which helped fuel his love of health and fitness. He continues to enjoy spending time outdoors mountain biking, swimming, hiking, and playing baseball with his two boys.
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

College Mental Health Crisis: How Students Can Combat Depression & Anxiety

College mental health is in crisis—but there’s hope. In this Metabolic Mind episode, psychiatrist Dr. Georgia Ede and researcher (and Army veteran) Drew Decker explain how ketogenic strategies can fit real campus life: dining halls, exams, social events, even travel. Learn what the KIND study revealed about feasibility, rapid symptom improvements, and simple campus changes—like food labeling and student keto clubs—that can make metabolic mental health support both practical and empowering.

Clock Icon 38 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

6 Clear Signs You Might Have Food Addiction & What You Can Do

Is food addiction a mental illness? Should ultra-processed foods rich in sugar and refined carbohydrates be classified alongside alcohol, nicotine, and other addictive substances linked to substance use disorders. Food addiction (especially to processed, packaged, carb-heavy foods) is real, widespread, and often misunderstood by both the public and healthcare professionals. Dr. Bret Scher and Dr. Georgia Ede sit down with Dr. Jen Unwin, a psychologist with over 30 years of NHS experience, to explore the science, diagnostic challenges, and recovery strategies for ultra-processed food addiction.

Clock Icon 57 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Q&A’s: Are Sweeteners Helpful or Harmful? Dairy? Ketone Levels, Longevity, and More

Ketogenic therapy for mental health is gaining traction, but what happens when it doesn’t seem to work or even makes things worse? In this episode, Dr. Georgia Ede and Dr. Bret Scher answer some of the most common questions about ketogenic diets, including what to do when your mental health doesn’t improve, how to properly enter ketosis, and why sweeteners, snacks, and dairy might be holding you back. They break down the difference between a ketogenic diet and ketogenic therapy, and why things like ketone levels, medication adjustments, and lifestyle factors matter. You’ll also learn why some people experience initial worsening symptoms, how to transition more gradually, and when to seek support from experienced clinicians.

Clock Icon 28 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Do We Have Kidney Health All Wrong?

Is high protein intake responsible for chronic kidney disease? Have you ever heard that ketogenic diets are harmful to your kidneys? These are just a few of the common kidney health myths debunked in this interview with Dr. Thomas Weimbs, who says that traditional views on what causes chronic kidney disease are “definitely not founded in science.” Dr. Thomas Weimbs, professor and vice chair at UC Santa Barbara, has spent decades studying chronic kidney disease (CKD). His recent research explores the impact of ketogenic interventions on kidney function, and the findings may surprise you. Rather than harming the kidneys, Dr. Weimbs is finding that keto can actually improve kidney function in people living with CKD.

Clock Icon 32 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Q&A: Harvard Trained Psychiatrist Answers Your Mental Health and Diet Questions. Ep. 1

What’s the difference between a low-carb diet and a ketogenic diet, especially when it comes to mental health? In this premiere Mailbag episode, Dr. Bret Scher (Medical Director at Metabolic Mind) and Harvard trained psychiatrist Dr. Georgia Ede answer some of the most common questions they receive about ketogenic diets specifically for mental illness.

Clock Icon 33 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Will GLP-1 Drugs Replace Diets Forever?

GLP-1 medications like Ozempic and Wegovy are changing how the medical system approaches obesity and metabolic disease. But are they a replacement for dietary intervention? Or are dietary interventions a replacement for these medications? Could they be used together for even better outcomes? In this conversation, Dr. David Ludwig (Harvard, Boston Children’s Hospital) and journalist Gary Taubes explore the science behind GLP-1s, their impact on insulin, weight loss, and chronic disease, and where dietary strategies like low carb or ketogenic therapy fit in.

Clock Icon 45 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

The Truth About Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms

Does psychiatric medication withdrawal exist — or is it just a myth? For anyone who’s lived through it, the question alone can feel insulting. Psychiatric drug withdrawal is real. While the experience varies widely, for many, it’s not “brief and mild” as many guidelines state it is. It can be intense, destabilizing, and often misunderstood. One of the most painful challenges is trying to determine whether what you're experiencing is withdrawal or relapse.

Clock Icon 38 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Are We Using GLP-1 Medications All Wrong? with Dr. Ben Bikman

What if We're Using GLP-1 Medications All Wrong? Drugs like Ozempic, Wegovy, and Mounjaro are transforming the landscape of medical weight loss, but could their side effects be a sign that we’re not harnessing their full therapeutic potential? In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Ben Bikman, metabolic health researcher and professor at BYU, joins Dr. Bret Scher to explore a powerful new framework: using GLP-1 medications at low doses and for short durations to help curb carbohydrate cravings, break addictive eating cycles, and support long-term metabolic health.

Clock Icon 34 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

What’s the Connection Between Depression, Antipsychotics, and Suicide Risk?

Is it really treatment-resistant depression or are we using the wrong treatments? In this episode, Dr. Bret Scher is joined by psychiatrist Dr. Georgia Ede to examine a new large, population-based analysis on the use of antipsychotics versus third-line antidepressants in people diagnosed with treatment-resistant depression, and what effect that has on suicide risk.

Clock Icon 23 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

The Truth About Nutrition Science: Is The Government Getting it Wrong?

Is nutrition research getting the support it needs to inform public health policy? Despite the rise in chronic diseases related to lifestyle factors like diet, nutrition research only receives $2.2 billion of the $30 billion NIH budget. At first glance, this may seem like a lot of money, but its utilization is spread thin, and, as Dr. David Ludwig and Gary Taubes highlight in this interview, it’s primarily used to fund misleading short term trials that confirm existing nutrition biases.

Clock Icon 1 hr 10 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

“Can Drinking Ketones Help Treat Mental Illness?” featuring Dr. Karin Huizer

Can exogenous ketones help treat mental illness? In this interview, psychiatry resident and researcher in the Netherlands Dr. Karin Huizer shares groundbreaking insights into her pilot study using ketone esters for mental health. The hope is that this early research will inform us to whether or not supplemental ketones are a viable option for mental health, which could be especially useful for patients who struggle to follow a full ketogenic diet.

Clock Icon 32 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

What Happens When Kids Try Keto for Bipolar? featuring Elizabeth Errico

Youth mental illness is on the rise, and treatment options are often limited, especially for kids with bipolar disorder. In this interview, Elizabeth Errico, founder of the Children's Mental Health Resource Center (CMHRC), shares how her organization is implementing ketogenic therapy in a real-world setting for kids aged 6 to 17. The year-long study is part of a larger initiative supported by the Baszucki Group to expand mental health care options through metabolic approaches.

Clock Icon 33 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Mental Health Meets Heart Health in New Mayo Clinic Initiative

Can ketogenic therapy improve both cardiovascular and mental health? A new study at Mayo Clinic is exploring that question. This research marks a powerful full-circle moment: the ketogenic diet was first used to treat epilepsy at Mayo Clinic over 100 years ago. In this episode, we sit down with two leading physician-scientists from Mayo Clinic: Dr. Mark A. Frye (Psychiatry) and Dr. Francisco Lopez-Jimenez (Preventive Cardiology). Together, they explore how nutrition—particularly ketogenic therapy—can play a role in treating bipolar disorder, improving cardiovascular health, and addressing shared metabolic pathways that impact both heart and brain health.

Clock Icon 50 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

New Research Pinpoints Midlife Brain Decline & How to Slow It

This episode of the Metabolic Mind Podcast features Dr. Lily Mujica Parodi, a Baszucki Endowed Chair of Metabolic Neuroscience, and Dr. Kirk Nylen, Managing Director of Neuroscience at Baszucki Group. Together with host Dr. Bret Scher, they explore groundbreaking research on insulin resistance in the brain and its link to dementia and cognitive decline. The conversation highlights a critical age window for intervention, the stabilizing role of ketones on brain networks, and the potential of ketogenic diets and lifestyle changes to prevent or slow neurodegeneration. Listeners gain both scientific insight and practical takeaways on how metabolic health influences long-term brain function.

Clock Icon 47 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

How Mitochondria Shape Your Mind, Mood, & Mental Health with Dr. Martin Picard

This episode features mitochondrial psychobiologist Dr. Martin Picard discussing his new Nature study that maps mitochondrial “hardware” across the human brain and links it to MRI signals. He explains how different brain regions and cell types have distinct “mitotypes,” why that matters for brain energy and mental health, and how this could enable non-invasive measures of mitochondrial content and function (MitoBrainMap). The conversation explores practical implications—diet, sleep, movement, stress, and social connection—as levers that shape brain energetics, while cautioning against one-size-fits-all prescriptions. Picard also previews upcoming work on saliva/blood biomarkers and his broader vision to reframe health and consciousness through an energetic lens.

Clock Icon 38 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Creatine Help with Depression? Exploring the Science with Dr. Nick Fabiano

This Metabolic Mind episode features psychiatrist Dr. Nick Fabiano on why the gym staple creatine may also benefit depression. He explains how creatine supports brain energy (ATP/phosphocreatine) and reviews emerging evidence showing faster, greater antidepressant responses when added to SSRIs or CBT. The discussion covers practicals—typical dosing (5g/day), safety, supplement quality—and open questions about optimal dosing, diet context, and pairing with exercise. Listeners get a balanced take on who might consider creatine and what to discuss with their clinicians.

Clock Icon 25 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Keto Help Pediatric Bipolar? Groundbreaking Trial Begins

This episode features UCLA psychiatrist Dr. David Miklowitz on the first multicenter trial testing ketogenic therapy as an adjunct for adolescents and young adults (12–21) with bipolar disorder. He explains how pediatric bipolar can present differently from adults, why family-centered care and psychoeducation matter, and how meds remain first-line while diet may help reduce relapse and symptom burden. The study spans UCLA, Cincinnati, Colorado, and Pittsburgh, includes a two-week ramp-up to keto, weekly dietitian support, finger-stick ketone/glucose tracking, and pre/post labs (e.g., HOMA-IR, CRP, lipids). Listeners learn who might qualify, what outcomes are being measured, and how nutrition could complement medication and therapy in youth bipolar care.

Clock Icon 30 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Ketogenic Therapy Help Autism and Mental Health? | Dr. Eline Dekeyster on Mechanisms & Hope

This episode features researcher Dr. Eline Dekeyster on ketogenic therapy for autism spectrum disorder—why it may help and how to make it workable in real life. She explains overlapping mechanisms (brain energy deficits, mitochondrial dysfunction, insulin resistance, neurotransmitter balance) and how ketosis can provide alternative fuel and potentially reverse biochemical abnormalities. The conversation digs into adherence—sensory issues, food selectivity, family and coaching support, gamified tracking—and her lab’s ongoing case reports and personalized “single-case” experiments (with adult studies planned). Dekeyster also shares her personal experience using ketosis for mood stability, underscoring that this is not medical advice but a promising avenue for future research and care.

Clock Icon 39 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Study Shocks Cardiologists: LDL Didn’t Predict Plaque

This episode features cardiologist Dr. Matt Budoff on a one-year CT-angiography study of lean, keto-adhering “hyper-responders” with very high LDL/ApoB. Headline finding: no clear link between higher LDL/ApoB and coronary plaque progression; instead, baseline plaque burden predicted who progressed. Some participants even showed plaque regression despite LDL >200 mg/dL, underscoring wide individual variability. Takeaway: ketogenic diets weren’t shown to accelerate heart disease; use CAC/CTA to assess plaque and treat existing atherosclerosis per standard care, independent of diet.

Clock Icon 21 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Keto-CTA Study Confusion: Addressing the Misunderstandings with Dr. Budoff

Cardiologist Dr. Matt Budoff returns to explain how coronary CT metrics—especially percent atheroma volume (PAV) and non-calcified plaque—should be interpreted in the new lean mass hyper-responder study. He clarifies that plaque did progress in some participants, but the rise was similar to treated cohorts in other trials and was not linked to keto-induced LDL or ApoB levels. The episode unpacks why relative percent changes can mislead when baseline plaque is tiny, and why calcium score/CTA help distinguish low- from higher-risk individuals. Practical takeaway: keto wasn’t shown to drive plaque; use imaging to check for atherosclerosis and treat documented plaque per standard care, independent of diet.

Clock Icon 34 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Sky High LDL and No Heart Disease? Results from Dave Feldman’s New Study

Engineer-researcher Dave Feldman walks through the lean-mass hyper-responder (LMHR) keto-CTA trial: 100 metabolically healthy keto eaters with very high LDL/ApoB had coronary CT angiograms at baseline and ~1 year. Key finding: changes in plaque (including non-calcified plaque) did not correlate with LDL or ApoB; the best predictor of progression was pre-existing plaque. Keto itself wasn’t shown to drive plaque, and saturated-fat intake and cumulative on-diet LDL exposure didn’t track with ApoB or plaque change either. Plaque did rise modestly for some—about what’s seen in treated cohorts—while a few even regressed; interpretation should be individualized with imaging (CAC/CTA) guiding care and standard therapies used when plaque is present. Limitations (e.g., no longitudinal control group) mean more studies are needed; Dave’s team is launching follow-ups and invites open, civil debate—“don’t confuse arsonists with firefighters.” Resources: CitizenScienceFoundation.org and cholesterolcodemovie.com.

Clock Icon 47 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

How This Doctor Put Over 150 Patients into Diabetes Remission

Dr. David Unwin, a UK NHS GP, shares how he has achieved over 150 cases of drug-free type 2 diabetes remission in his practice using low-carb nutrition. He emphasizes the power of real-world data, showing improvements in blood sugar, kidney and liver health, and cardiovascular risk factors. Despite pushback, support from the Royal College of GPs and strong patient outcomes have amplified his work through national media. He highlights continuous glucose monitoring, insurance incentives, and recognizing food addiction as key drivers for the future of metabolic health care.

Clock Icon 40 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

The Truth About Evidence-Based Medicine with Dr. Gordon Guyatt

Dr. Gordon Guyatt, who coined the term evidence-based medicine, explains its core principles: weighing the trustworthiness of evidence, relying on systematic reviews, and integrating patient values into care. He highlights how small associations in nutrition studies (like red meat and heart disease) are easily explained by bias, unlike the large, undeniable risks seen with smoking. Guyatt stresses the GRADE system as a structured way to judge evidence quality and guide decision-making. For clinicians, this means focusing on when evidence is strong versus when patient preferences must drive care, while the public should learn to distinguish trustworthy from less reliable claims.

Clock Icon 46 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Personalized Psychiatry: Using Blood Tests to Find the Right Mental Health Treatment

This Metabolic Mind episode with psychiatrist-scientist Dr. Alexander Niculescu explains how precision psychiatry uses blood-based biomarkers to personalize diagnosis and treatment. By measuring gene expression, MindX Sciences’ tests distinguish depression from bipolar risk, match patients to specific medications at lower doses, and integrate nutraceutical and lifestyle options. The goal: faster relief, fewer side effects, de-prescription when possible, and a path toward preventative, objective mental healthcare.

Clock Icon 51 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

New Treatment For Bipolar: A New Ketogenic Therapy Study with Dr. Iain Campbell

Ketogenic therapy for bipolar disorder shows promise: in a University of Edinburgh pilot led by Dr. Iain Campbell, daily tracking linked higher blood ketones—especially above ~2.0 mmol/L—to better mood, energy, and lower anxiety/impulsivity. Brain MR spectroscopy also showed notable glutamate reductions, hinting at a mechanism. The study and a new Metabolic Psychiatry Hub highlight growing evidence that targeted ketosis may aid mood stabilization while improving metabolic health.

Clock Icon 31 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

How Ketones Support the Aging Brain; Psychiatric Meds disrupt brain energy – Dr. Stephen Cunnane

Dr. Stephen Cunnane, PhD, professor at the University of Sherbrooke, shares groundbreaking research on brain fuel metabolism in dementia, psychosis, and Parkinson’s disease. Using advanced PET imaging, his team shows how impaired glucose use in the brain contrasts with preserved ketone uptake—opening the door for ketogenic strategies, MCTs, and carb reduction as therapies. He also highlights promising results from retirement home residents on lower-carb diets and early data combining exercise and ketone supplements in Parkinson’s patients.

Clock Icon 34 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

How to Decode Nutrition Studies: Make Sense of Research Strength and Quality with Dr. Adrian Soto-Mota

Internal medicine physician-scientist Adrian Soto-Mota, MD, PhD, breaks down how to read nutrition studies without the hype. He explains NHANES strengths and limits, why some keto headlines conflict, how randomized trials compare, and which biomarkers and biological age tools offer better clues for heart health, longevity, and quality of life.

Clock Icon 34 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Is a Ketogenic Diet Effective For Adolescent Mental Health?

Psychiatrist Lori Calabrese, MD, shares practical lessons from using ketogenic metabolic therapy with adolescents facing serious mental illness. She explains how family buy-in, teen engagement, tailored teaching styles, and a skilled dietitian drive success; why teens often enter ketosis faster than adults; and how to navigate social life, medications, and flexible “ketone targets” without triggering disordered eating. Real-world cases span first-episode psychosis, major depression, bipolar disorder, OCD, anxiety, autism, and ADHD—highlighting a patient-centered approach that can change a young person’s trajectory for life.

Clock Icon 17 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Keto for Women: Insights on Hormones, PCOS, Menopause, and more from the SHE IS Lab with Dr. Madison Kackley

Dr. Madison Kackley, PhD, and her SHE IS Lab at Ohio State are pioneering research on ketogenic interventions tailored for women. From menstrual cycle regulation and PCOS to perimenopause, postpartum depression, and exercise recovery, her studies reveal how ketosis uniquely impacts women’s health. With a focus on body composition, brain health markers like BDNF, and individualized nutrition, this episode explores why ketogenic therapy may be especially powerful for women across all life stages.

Clock Icon 27 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Why Mental Health Care Is Failing & What We Can Do About It with Dr. Chris Palmer

Dr. Chris Palmer (Harvard/McLean) returns to discuss metabolic psychiatry, why only a small fraction of patients receive effective, evidence-based care, and how shifting research toward clinical trials, lifestyle interventions, and ketogenic therapies could transform outcomes. He challenges the gene-only model, outlines a biopsychosocial, metabolism-first framework, and calls for studies on safe medication tapering—areas NIMH underfunds today. A must-listen for clinicians, researchers, policymakers, and families seeking proven paths to better mental health.

Clock Icon 59 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Revolutionizing Assisted Living: Hal Cranmer’s Ketogenic & Carnivore Approach to Senior Wellness

Hal Cranmer, owner of A Paradise for Parents assisted living homes in Arizona, shares how ketogenic and carnivore nutrition, combined with movement, sunlight, and community, are transforming the health of his elderly residents. By shifting away from processed foods toward nutrient-dense meals, residents are lowering blood pressure and blood sugar, regaining strength, improving memory, and even returning home to live independently. In this inspiring Metabolic Mind episode, Hal explains how better food and lifestyle strategies can revolutionize elder care while remaining affordable and practical.

Clock Icon 39 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Exercise as a Prescription for Depression with Dr. Nicholas Fabiano

Dr. Nick Fabiano, psychiatry resident and researcher, joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to explain how exercise can be prescribed as a treatment for depression. He shares the latest evidence showing exercise is as effective as antidepressants or therapy, explores why even small amounts of movement improve mood and brain health, and introduces a practical FITT framework for clinicians to personalize exercise prescriptions. Fabiano also discusses the biological, psychological, and social mechanisms behind exercise’s antidepressant effects, the role of adherence, and how movement can complement or reduce the need for medication.

Clock Icon 45 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

The 2025 Dietary Guidelines with Nina Teicholz: A Turning Point for Public Health?

Investigative journalist and Nutrition Coalition founder Nina Teicholz joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to expose major flaws in the U.S. Dietary Guidelines process. She details how decades of biased science, industry influence, and political control have sidelined over 2,000 clinical trials on low-carb and ketogenic diets. Teicholz and host Dr. Bret Scher discuss why current recommendations still demonize meat and saturated fat, how untested computer models are shaping national nutrition policy, and what must change to make future guidelines truly evidence-based and focused on metabolic health.

Clock Icon 55 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

How Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGMs) Improve Metabolic and Mental Health

In this episode of the Metabolic Mind Podcast, Dr. Bret Scher explores how continuous glucose monitors (CGMs) can transform metabolic and mental health. He explains how CGMs track real-time glucose responses to meals, exercise, sleep, and stress, revealing patterns that traditional lab tests miss. Dr. Scher breaks down what healthy glucose ranges look like, how to interpret data for those on low-carb or ketogenic diets, and why small daily glucose insights can lead to lasting behavioral change. A must-listen for anyone interested in optimizing brain and body health through better metabolic awareness.

Clock Icon 8 mins
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How Your Microbiome Shapes Your Body and Mind with Dr. Jack Gilbert

In this Metabolic Mind episode, microbiome pioneer Dr. Jack Gilbert demystifies your 40 trillion gut partners, explaining how diet, fermented foods, fecal transplants, and exercise shape a resilient microbial “rainforest.” He breaks down why dysbiosis varies by disease, how metabolites influence appetite and fat storage, and why fiber isn’t one-size-fits-all—especially for low-carb and ketogenic eaters. Gilbert also previews a near future of AI-driven, daily microbiome monitoring that turns data into tailored diet, probiotic, and activity advice. Learn practical steps to reduce ultra-processed foods, support gut diversity, and leverage mitochondria–microbe crosstalk to improve metabolic and mental health.

Clock Icon 41 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Tapering Psychiatric Medications Safely: Insights with Dr. Josef

Psychiatrist and former FDA insider Dr. Josef joins Dr. Bret Scher to unpack deprescribing psychiatric medications—how to taper SSRIs, antipsychotics, and mood stabilizers safely (5–10% monthly, patient-led, often with liquid/compounded doses), avoid withdrawal, and address root causes with metabolic and ketogenic therapies. Real patient stories, practical taper protocols, and a fresh look at antidepressant “chemical imbalance” myths make this a must-hear for anyone navigating psychiatric meds and metabolic mental health.

Clock Icon 48 mins
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Ketogenic Diets in Alcohol Addiction: Breakthrough Research with Dr. Wiers

Neuroscientist and psychiatrist Dr. Corinde Wiers from the University of Pennsylvania joins Dr. Bret Scher on the Metabolic Mind Podcast to discuss how ketogenic diets and ketone supplements may transform treatment for alcohol use disorder. She explains how ketosis reduces withdrawal symptoms, lowers benzodiazepine needs, and decreases alcohol craving by restoring brain energy metabolism. The episode explores the science behind acetate and ketones, new imaging data showing the brain’s preference for ketones over glucose, and the potential of metabolic therapies for addiction and mental health recovery.

Clock Icon 26 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Whole-Person Care for Mental Health: Dr. Scott Fears on Amae Health’s Approach

Psychiatrist and CMO of Amae Health, Dr. Scott Fears, joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to share how integrated psychiatric care plus metabolic therapies can transform outcomes in serious mental illness. Learn how ketogenic diets, health coaching, grocery-store training, and continuous data from wearables reduce hospitalizations, enable safe deprescribing, and deliver value-based results. Discover a scalable “food as medicine” model that unites psychiatry, primary care, and real-world behavior change to improve metabolic and mental health together.

Clock Icon 35 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Why Body Composition Matters More Than Weight Loss: A Ketogenic Approach with Dr. Bret Scher

Discover why weight loss alone isn’t the goal—body composition is. Dr. Bret Scher breaks down how ketogenic diets, adequate protein, and resistance training can drive fat loss while preserving muscle, compares Ozempic/Wegovy (semaglutide) outcomes to keto results, and shares practical steps to improve metabolic health without sacrificing lean mass.

Clock Icon 7 mins
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How to Taper Psychiatric Medications Safely: Expert Advice on Med Management with Dr. Lori Calabrese

Psychiatrist Lori Calabrese explains how ketogenic diets affect psychiatric medications, sometimes amplifying their effects, and outlines a thoughtful approach to safe medication tapering. She discusses distinguishing side effects from relapse, stabilizing metabolism first, and using lifestyle tools like exercise and sleep to make deprescribing smoother and more effective.

Clock Icon 18 mins
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How a Keto Diet Impacts Psychiatric Meds: Insights from Metabolic Psychiatry with Dr. Deanna Kelly

Pharmacist and psychiatry professor Deanna Kelly explains how high-fat and ketogenic diets alter psychiatric drug absorption and metabolism. She discusses risks with quetiapine, lithium, and the new xanomeline–trospium combination, how medications can disrupt ketosis, and why communication with pharmacists is critical for safe, effective metabolic therapy.

Clock Icon 27 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Why Healthcare Reform Needs a New Focus with Dr. Martin Makary

Johns Hopkins surgeon Marty Makary joins Metabolic Mind to argue America’s health crisis stems from lies and corporate capture—not partisanship. He calls for a root-cause reset: cleaner food, circadian-friendly schools, limits on student phone use, and food-as-medicine over polypharmacy. The Senate roundtable showed bipartisan momentum, but real change will come from public education that moves markets and from medicine shedding conflicts and embracing prevention.

Clock Icon 32 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Treating Type 1 Diabetes and Depression with a Ketogenic Diet | Lisa La Nasa’s Journey

Type 1 advocate Lisa La Nasa shares how therapeutic carbohydrate reduction ended years of 40–400 glucose swings, eased depression, and restored her sense of control—after standard care failed. In this Metabolic Mind episode, she explains adapting Dr. Bernstein’s approach, differentiating ketoacidosis from nutritional strategies, and building diaVerge Diabetes to coach others toward steadier sugars, lower insulin, and better quality of life.

Clock Icon 25 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Keto Help Treat Bipolar & Schizophrenia? A New Trial Explores Its Potential

A powerhouse Australian team is running a first-of-its-kind randomized trial testing a 2:1 ketogenic diet versus national healthy-eating guidelines for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Built on animal data showing bioenergetic dysfunction and keto benefits, the study pairs equal, high-touch support in both arms and tracks psychiatric symptoms, cognition, daily well-being, metabolic labs, wearables, and the microbiome. Dietitian-led, real-world implementation emphasizes self-efficacy; early participant stories highlight more energy, clearer mood, weight loss, and renewed work and family life.

Clock Icon 41 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Carnivore Diet for Inflammatory Bowel Disease: New Source of Hope? With Nick Norwitz, PhD

PhD researcher-med student Nick Norwitz joins Metabolic Mind to unpack a new case series where a carnivore ketogenic diet put refractory IBD into remission, exploring mechanistic plausibility, profound mental-health gains, and why this patient-led signal warrants RCTs. He also critiques sensational red-meat/diabetes studies—tiny effects, heavy confounding—calling for nuanced, non-tribal interpretation of nutrition science.

Clock Icon 36 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Safe Tapering Practices for Anti-Depressants with Dr. Mark Horowitz

Deprescribing expert Dr. Mark Horowitz explains why psychiatric-med withdrawal is so often mistaken for relapse, how short-trial guidelines mislead clinicians, and the safer “hyperbolic” taper that uses liquids/compounding to make tiny final cuts. Learn practical signs of withdrawal vs. recurrence, what can buffer symptoms, who should (and shouldn’t) come off, and where to find evidence-based support.

Clock Icon 48 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Keto Diet and Heart Disease: Keto Diet and Heart Disease: What New Research Reveals About Cardiac Risk with Dr. Bret Scher

Does a ketogenic diet increase heart disease risk? A GRADE-assessed meta-analysis of 29 clinical trials in type 2 diabetes shows improved glycemia, triglycerides, HDL, and blood pressure with no significant rise in LDL or total cholesterol—echoed by other trials (including Virta). Learn why most patients shouldn’t be denied ketogenic therapy over unfounded cardiac concerns and how to navigate outliers like lean-mass hyper-responders.

Clock Icon 6 mins
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Cholesterol & Heart Health: Insights from LDL Research on Keto with Dave Feldman & Nick Norwitz, PhD

A JACC: Advances study comparing lean-mass hyper-responders on ketogenic diets to matched controls found no significant difference in coronary plaque by CCTA despite about five years of much higher LDL exposure. The findings question a one-size-fits-all lipid hypothesis, elevate imaging-based risk assessment over LDL alone, and point to metabolic health, HDL/triglycerides, and particle composition as key factors. Results are preliminary, with longitudinal and mechanistic analyses forthcoming.

Clock Icon 44 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Healing Metabolism to Heal Schizoaffective Disorder: Lauren Kennedy West’s Medical Keto Journey

After seven months on a medical ketogenic diet, YouTuber and advocate Lauren Kennedy West reports full remission from schizoaffective disorder and freedom from psychiatric medications. In conversation with Dr. Bret Scher and Hannah Warren on The Metabolic Mind Podcast, she reflects on how metabolic therapies transformed her life, the shortcomings of conventional psychiatry, the importance of patient self-advocacy, and the power of lifestyle and nutrition in restoring both mental and physical health.

Clock Icon 38 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Keto Offers Hope in the Bronx: Endocrinologist Uses Diet to Help Underserved Patients Recover Health

Endocrinologist Mariela Glandt’s South Bronx program uses the OwnaHealth app and a ketogenic, low-carb plan to reverse metabolic disease in a Medicaid population. Patients report rapid A1C reductions, major medication cutbacks, and broad quality-of-life gains, proving keto can be affordable, scalable, and effective across socioeconomic lines.

Clock Icon 22 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Ketogenic Therapy for Migraine Management – with Dr. Elena Gross

Neuroscientist Elena Gross explains how a metabolic subtype of migraine—driven by brain energy deficits, inflammation, and oxidative stress—can respond to ketogenic strategies. She shares trial data showing strong benefits in biomarker-defined responders and outlines a four-pillar plan: stabilize glucose, lower oxidative stress, optimize micronutrients, and add ketones (dietary and/or exogenous). Discover practical ways to personalize migraine care with metabolic therapies.

Clock Icon 39 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Best Diet for Mental Health: Keto or Mediterranean? with Dr. Bret Scher

This Metabolic Mind episode with Dr. Bret Scher explores whether the Mediterranean or ketogenic diet is better for mental health. While Mediterranean diets show modest benefits for depression, emerging studies on ketogenic therapy suggest stronger effects for conditions like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. The discussion highlights shared dietary principles, key metabolic differences, and strategies for integrating nutrition into mental health care.

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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Cutting Carbs Improve Mental Health? Myths and Facts with Dr. Bret Scher

This Metabolic Mind episode with Dr. Bret Scher explores whether carbohydrates are harmful to mental health. It explains how the impact of carbs depends on individual metabolic health, lifestyle, and goals—especially when using ketogenic therapy for mental illness. The discussion highlights how ketosis changes brain energy use, why some carbs can be beneficial, and how tools like CGMs can personalize dietary decisions.

Clock Icon 8 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Keto, Microbiome, and Depression: A New RCT led by Dr. Timur Liwinski

Swiss clinician–scientist Timur Liwinski is running a 10-week randomized controlled trial testing a medical ketogenic diet for major depression, tracking HAM-D scores alongside metagenomic microbiome changes. With structured nutrition counseling and pragmatic design, the study probes whether species-appropriate, low-carb eating can outperform standard care in metabolic psychiatry.

Clock Icon 25 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

From Lived-Experience to Trailblazing Keto Research – with Maria Edwards

Bipolar II survivor and researcher Maria Edwards shares how a ketogenic diet helped her taper off meds, control symptoms, and eliminate migraines—and why she’s now running clinical studies on ketosis for brain injury and PTSD. Hear her team-based care approach, feasibility data bringing hospitalized patients into ketosis, early PTSD signals, and what’s next for metabolic therapies in psychiatry.

Clock Icon 36 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Ketogenic Therapy: How 3 Patients Put Depression and Anxiety in Remission with Dr. Lori Calabrese

Connecticut psychiatrist Dr. Lori Calabrese shares a new case series showing rapid, full remission of depression and anxiety using ketogenic therapy. In conversation with Dr. Bret Scher, she explains how personalized keto nutrition, monitoring, and community support can transform brain energy, reduce symptoms within weeks, and offer a powerful, real-world path to metabolic mental health.

Clock Icon 26 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Accelerating the Science of Ketogenic Therapy for Mental Health with Julie Milder, PhD

Baszucki Group Director of Neuroscience Dr. Julie Milder explains how a global research community is fast-tracking ketogenic metabolic therapies for serious mental illness. Learn about new multi-institution trials, embedded mechanistic science, clinician toolkits for real-world data, and why philanthropy is catalyzing the next wave of metabolism-based psychiatry.

Clock Icon 24 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Is Ketogenic Therapy Safe for Children? – with Dr. Matthew Calkins

Is ketogenic therapy safe for kids? Family and obesity medicine specialist Dr. Matt Calkins makes the case that supervised, well-formulated low-carb diets differ from 4:1 epilepsy protocols and can safely improve pediatric metabolic health, challenging American Academy of Pediatrics cautions while highlighting strong A1C results in type 1 diabetes and the need for clinician support over blanket warnings.

Clock Icon 42 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can I Try a Medical Keto Diet for Mental Illness Without a Metabolic Psychiatrist?

Can’t find a metabolic psychiatrist? In this Metabolic Mind episode, Hannah Warren shares how to start ketogenic therapy for mental health safely when expert help is scarce—covering risk mitigation, labs and medication monitoring with your current clinician, using keto coaches for targeted consults, building family and peer support, and personalizing diet and lifestyle to sustain therapeutic ketosis.

Clock Icon 33 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can a Medical Keto Diet Treat Depression in College Students? – with Dr. Jeff Volek

Professor Jeff Volek joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to share insights from three decades of ketogenic diet research and his latest study on depression at Ohio State University. He explains how ketosis addresses metabolic dysfunction across many diseases, outlines what defines a well-formulated ketogenic diet, and discusses how early findings show promise for improving mental health through nutritional ketosis.

Clock Icon 29 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Solutions to Prevent Early Death in Bipolar Disorder with Dr. Melvin McInnis

Dr. Melvin McInnis of the University of Michigan joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to discuss his groundbreaking research revealing the high premature mortality risk among people with bipolar disorder and its connection to metabolic dysfunction. He shares insights into new metabolic-focused treatments, including a pilot study on exogenous ketones, and advocates for healthcare policy changes to improve education, lifestyle support, and clinical resources for those living with bipolar disorder.

Clock Icon 42 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Trailblazing Stanford Trial Shows Keto Improves Serious Mental Illness – with Dr. Shebani Sethi

Stanford psychiatrist Dr. Shebani Sethi joins the Metabolic Mind Podcast to discuss her landmark pilot trial showing that a ketogenic diet led to 75% recovery and complete reversal of metabolic syndrome in patients with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. She explains how improved energy, sleep, and reduced psychotic symptoms transformed participants’ lives, highlights the study’s strong adherence and safety, and explores the growing promise of ketogenic therapy as an adjunctive treatment for serious mental illness.

Clock Icon 23 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Collaborative Science: How Individuals are Enhancing Research – with Dave Feldman

Engineer-turned-researcher Dave Feldman recaps the Collaborative Science Conference, a community-funded, charity-driven event advancing lean-mass hyper-responder research and a more collaborative model of science. Hear how crowdfunding, citizen science, and academic partnerships are reshaping studies on LDL, HDL, triglycerides, and ketogenic diets—and what’s coming next.

Clock Icon 23 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Could Your Diet Be Causing Symptoms of Anxiety and Depression? – with Dr. Uma Naidoo

Harvard psychiatrist and chef Dr. Uma Naidoo shares how everyday foods shape anxiety and mood through the gut–brain axis, blood sugar, and inflammation. Learn which ingredients to skip (ultra-processed foods, hidden sugars, certain seed oils), what to add (omega-3s, spices, fermented foods, fiber), and why probiotics and supplements work best alongside real meals. With simple, realistic tips—rotisserie-chicken shortcuts, eggs-in-a-mug, build-your-own salads—and a thoughtful look at when ketogenic therapy fits, this conversation translates cutting-edge nutritional psychiatry into step-by-step actions to calm your mind and support long-term metabolic health.

Clock Icon 41 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Stanford Twin Study: Are Vegan Diets Healthier?

Dr. Bret Scher unpacks the Stanford Twin Study comparing vegan and omnivore diets, revealing why the media’s claims that “vegan is healthier” oversimplify the science. In this episode, he explains the study’s design limitations, short duration, and focus on two high-carb diets, noting that calorie differences—not food type alone—likely drove the results. The discussion challenges popular narratives around plant-based diets, explores issues of sustainability and long-term health, and invites Stanford researchers to collaborate on a new, more comprehensive trial comparing vegan and ketogenic diets to advance nutrition science and public understanding.

Clock Icon 8 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

New Study Questions LDL Risk – An interview with Dave Feldman

Dr. Bret Scher interviews engineer and citizen scientist Dave Feldman about new baseline data from a coronary CT angiography study of Lean Mass Hyper-Responders—lean, metabolically healthy people who develop very high LDL on low-carb diets. In a matched analysis against participants from the Miami Heart Study, LMHRs showed no statistically significant difference in total coronary plaque at baseline despite LDL averages near 270 mg/dL and some values above 500 mg/dL. Within both cohorts, LDL levels did not correlate with plaque burden. The episode underscores scientific nuance: these findings do not “disprove” the LDL hypothesis and apply to a carefully selected population; the pivotal question is what the one-year follow-up scans will show about plaque progression. Scher and Feldman also discuss how modern imaging—CAC and CTA—can help individualize cardiovascular risk decisions beyond one-size-fits-all cholesterol targets, while reminding listeners to partner with their clinicians for context-specific care.

Clock Icon 41 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

What Do Adenosine, Forests & Keto Diets Have to do with Brain Health?

Dr. Bret Scher talks with neuroscientist Dr. Susan Masino about why ketogenic therapy isn’t a single-mechanism “drug” but a multi-pathway approach that can stabilize brain networks and support long-term resilience. Masino’s research centers on adenosine—an energy- and signaling molecule that rises with ketone metabolism and helps suppress seizures, modulate neural activity, and drive epigenetic changes. She introduces “preconditioning,” showing how ketosis can ready the brain to better withstand future insults such as stroke, with adenosine as a key mediator. Beyond diet, Masino bridges neuroscience with her forestry work, summarizing evidence that regular exposure to nature lowers anxiety and loneliness and should be treated as a practical, community-level tool for mental health. The conversation reframes brain care around prevention: combine ketogenic strategies, time in nature, and other lifestyle supports to build durable mental well-being—while working with clinicians for safe, individualized implementation.

Clock Icon 17 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Can Changing Your Diet Change Your Mind?- with Metabolic Psychiatry Pioneer Dr. Georgia Ede

Harvard-trained psychiatrist Dr. Georgia Ede joins Dr. Bret Scher to cut through “brain superfood” hype and lay out a science-first framework for eating to improve mood, reduce anxiety, and protect memory. Drawing on clinical experience and rigorous evidence, Ede explains how unstable blood sugar and chronically high insulin drive brain inflammation and oxidative stress—and why restoring healthy metabolism (sometimes with lower-carb or ketogenic strategies) can sharpen thinking and stabilize emotions. She clarifies common nutrition myths, from the limits of observational food studies to the debate over seed oils and saturated fat, and makes the case for whole-food patterns—including some animal foods—to supply essential brain nutrients. Practical takeaways include using continuous glucose monitors, simple labs, and symptom tracking to personalize your plan. If you want clear, actionable guidance for lifelong brain health—beyond clickbait and diet wars—this episode is your roadmap.

Clock Icon 39 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Future of Precision Medicine & Nutritional Therapies for Mental Illness with Dr. Megan Kirk Chang

Can nutritional ketosis offer hope for treatment-resistant depression? In this Metabolic Mind episode, Dr. Bret Scher interviews Dr. Megan Kirk Chang, a Senior Researcher at the University of Oxford’s Nuffield Department of Primary Care. With a PhD in Kinesiology and Health Sciences and advanced training in Health Psychology, Dr. Kirk Chang has spent her career studying non-pharmacologic mental health interventions—from mindfulness and compassion training to exercise therapy. Now, she’s turning her scientific lens to ketogenic diets as potential adjunctive treatments for depression, cognitive decline, and psychosis. In this conversation, she explains why she’s entering the metabolic psychiatry field despite not coming from a nutrition background, noting that “there’s too much of a signal to ignore.” She details her upcoming Oxford trials comparing ketogenic and Mediterranean diets in treatment-resistant depression and dementia-risk populations, exploring mechanisms involving neurotransmitter regulation, insulin sensitivity, inflammation, and the gut-brain axis. Dr. Kirk Chang also discusses the challenges of conducting dietary trials—ethical considerations, public misconceptions about keto, and the rigorous safety standards required for research approval. With curiosity, empathy, and scientific rigor, she argues that precision nutrition may become an essential part of mental healthcare—helping people “return to their sense of aliveness.” This episode bridges cutting-edge research, lived compassion, and the future of nutritional psychiatry.

Clock Icon 34 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

GLP-1 and Ketosis: Novel Mental Health Treatments

Can weight-loss drugs help the brain? In this Metabolic Mind episode, Dr. Bret Scher interviews Dr. Roger McIntyre—Professor of Psychiatry and Pharmacology at the University of Toronto—about GLP-1 receptor agonists (e.g., Wegovy, Ozempic) and ketogenic therapy in mood disorders. Dr. McIntyre explains why psychiatry’s spotlight is moving from simple neurotransmitter theories to brain energy and cellular metabolism, and how GLP-1s might aid mood both indirectly (better metabolic health) and directly (GLP-1 action in brain circuits). He draws parallels with nutritional ketosis, noting overlapping effects on inflammation, insulin signaling, mitochondria, and neural networks. While optimistic, he stresses staying within current GLP-1 indications and building high-quality clinical trials for both medications and keto before broad psychiatric adoption. The takeaway: a future of “brain-protective” care that integrates meds, diet, sleep, exercise, and psychotherapy—shifting treatment toward resilience and offering real hope for people with depression and bipolar disorder.

Clock Icon 40 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Treating Bipolar with Keto – 100 Self-Reports with Dr. Iain Campbell

Can ketogenic therapy help stabilize bipolar disorder—especially the hard-to-treat depressive side? In this Metabolic Mind episode, Dr. Bret Scher sits down with Dr. Iain Campbell, a Baszucki Brain Research Fellow at the University of Edinburgh who also lives with bipolar II. Campbell shares results from a first-of-its-kind online survey of more than 100 people using ketogenic diets for bipolar disorder: many report substantial improvements, extended remissions (some lasting years), and marked reductions in depression and suicidal thinking. He also previews data from a pilot study of 27 participants showing that higher blood ketone levels correlate with better mood, energy, and lower anxiety—especially above ~2.0 mmol/L—and that objective markers shift in a therapeutic direction, including reduced brain glutamate (on MRS) and lower serum lactate, consistent with improved mitochondrial function. While the team is clear about limitations (self-selection, not a randomized trial), the qualitative stories are powerful, and the quantitative signals are promising. Campbell outlines what’s next: a randomized controlled trial and a new metabolic psychiatry research hub in Edinburgh to accelerate rigorous science. If you’re curious about the intersection of ketosis and serious mental illness—or you’re a clinician looking for emerging, adjunctive tools—this conversation offers data, mechanisms, and lived experience in one place.

Clock Icon 21 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

Treating Weight Gain From Psychiatric Medications with Dr Matt Bernstein

Psychiatric medications can save lives—but for many people they also trigger rapid weight gain and serious metabolic side effects. In this Metabolic Mind episode, psychiatrist Dr. Matthew Bernstein joins Dr. Bret Scher to unpack what actually works for medication-induced weight gain. They discuss why standard tools like metformin and generic “diet and exercise” advice often fall short, where GLP-1 receptor agonists (Wegovy, Ozempic) and dual GLP-1/GIP drugs (tirzepatide) can fit, and the under-recognized risk of losing precious lean mass and regaining fat when these drugs are stopped. Dr. Bernstein shares how clinician-guided ketogenic therapy can deliver a true “win-win,” improving mood, cognition, and metabolic health together. You’ll hear practical strategies for protein targets, resistance training, CGM and ketone monitoring, and building a coordinated care team so medications support—not replace—sustainable lifestyle changes. If you or your patients are struggling with antipsychotic-related weight gain, this conversation offers a balanced, science-literate roadmap to protect metabolic health without sacrificing psychiatric stability.

Clock Icon 18 mins
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Metabolic Mind Podcast

The Truth About Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms

Does psychiatric medication withdrawal exist — or is it just a myth? For anyone who’s lived through it, the question alone can feel insulting. Psychiatric drug withdrawal is real. While the experience varies widely, for many, it’s not “brief and mild” as many guidelines state it is. It can be intense, destabilizing, and often misunderstood. One of the most painful challenges is trying to determine whether what you're experiencing is withdrawal or relapse.

Clock Icon 38 mins
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